tv Jimmy Carter Rock and Roll President CNN January 9, 2021 7:00pm-9:00pm PST
was a time when a president of the united states didn't rely on social media to address the nation. they would instead use this vital instrument of democracy, the white house briefing room. that podium sitting empty, all but gathering dust. there it is. the last time it was, quote, used was by the press secretary on thursday when she read a quick statement and then walked out without any questions. the time before it was used on december 15th. the trump administration says it has now been silenced. well, it still has one of the most powerful mouthpieces in the world available to it for 11 more days. this is cnn breaking news. >> and you are live in the cnn newsroom on this saturday evening. i'm pamela brown in washington. and tonight, breaking news, the most serious threat, to what's left of donald trump's presidency may not come from
house democrats who appear ready to impeach or the first republican senator calling on him to resign, but his own vice president. mike pence, he has the power to invoke the 25th amendment along with other cabinet members and a source close to the vice president tells our chief white house correspondent jim acosta that pence is not ruling out use of the 25th amendment, which would remove the president from office. and tonight i'm learning, though, that this is not under serious consideration. but the vice president not ruling it out. and news of that possibility comes after the latest pence move that may be aggravating a president who has shown little interest in the transition of power in 11 days. the source tells cnn pence will attend the inauguration of joe biden while trump boycotts. and tonight we are learning more about what is quickly becoming a fractured relationship between trump and pence. we now know that they haven't spoken since the riot on the
u.s. capitol and the president has not made any public comments denouncing death threats made against the vice president though a white house deputy press secretary says we strongly -- including those against any member of this administration. again, that's a deputy white house press secretary. silence from the president. and one source telling me that pence has finally gotten, quote, a glimpse of potus's vindictiveness. two sources familiar with the matter say trump is angry at pence and pence is disappointed and saddened by trump. as you saw this week trump tried to get the vice president to overturn the election results in congress but pence made it clear what most already understood, that he could do nothing about it under the constitution. and pence was one of the named targets of the mob during wednesday's capitol assault. this video is disturbing but part of the reality of the rage.
>> we want pence, we want pence, we want pence, we want pence, we want pence. >> and as you reported trump never called to check on pence's well-being and tonight that remains the case according to a source i spoke with this evening. we begin this hour with white house correspondent john harwood. john, one thing is certain, the 25th amendment has certainly not been taken off the table, it seems. >> it's not. it is highly unlikely, as you reported a few moments ago, to be employed, not least because some of the cabinet members who are the most disaffected by the president's behavior, betsy devos and elaine chao have resigned from the cabinet. you need to get a majority of the cabinet voting to invoke the amendment along with the vice president. however, i think what's
happening is that the entire country is increasingly coming to grips with the seriousness of that insurrection that was incited by the president, and also with the president's mental illness, that he is not a stable person, that he's not acting rationally. that is clear to mike pence more than anyone else. first of all, he's been very close to president trump for four years, he's seen all this behavior and now he's found himself at the end of this term inside the capitol threatened by people inspired by the president and that the president had turned on him because he wasn't willing to attempt to subvert the constitution on the president's behalf. i think the threat of the 25th amendment is part of a broader effort to deter future bad acts from the president over the course of the next ten days to try to get the country out of this crisis. the same is true, i think, of the impeachment, at least in part, the impeachment threat, it is meant to be hung over the president to -- as well as republican senators calling for
his resignation, for example, to try to stop him from doing bad things. we've seen he responded to pressure the other day and put out that videotaped statement where he acknowledged he wasn't going to be president after january 20th. he may regret that now. but he did it with pressure. >> he's under pressure to correct the correct me if i'm wrong and then he regrets it after, and that appears to be the case here. as well. john harwood, thank you so much and keep up the reporting, there's a lot going on. i know you're very busy. thanks so much. and although the political divide in the country has never been so stark few would argue with this statement right here, that the past four years have been unlike any other presidency in history. but where do we go from here? i'm joined by presidential historian allen lickman, distinguished professor of history at american university, the author of many books, including predicting the next president, the keys to the white house.
allen, thanks for coming on. you made headlines back in 2016 when you correctly predicted that president trump would win the white house using your 13 keys, underlined fundamentals that you say have driven every presidential election since 1860. i'm sure you would also predict that trump would be an unorthodox president but did you have any inkling that things would turn out the way that they have? >> absolutely i did. at the same time in my september 2016 "washington post" interview where i predicted trump would win, i predicted that he would be impeached and then in april 2017, i wrote my book, the case for impeachment. now, how did i know this? because i'd looked at donald trump's entire history, and i saw this was an individual who cared about nothing but himself, who constantly faltered the law and made lying a daily practice. in fact, he burst into politics
on the back of the biggest, most protracted, worst lie in american history that our first african-american president was born in africa, not in hawaii. so nothing about trump's transgressions have surprised me at all. it was all predictable from the start. >> has there ever been a presidential moment that compares with what happened on wednesday when a sitting president actually egged on an angry mob, essentially? >> never. and i want to point out a synergy here. at the same time this murderous mob was storming the capitol, something we have never seen before, the death toll from covid-19 was well exceeding the victims on 9/11. and patients were being dumped into hallways because they couldn't find beds. and both of these tragedies were the result of the two worst
transgressions by a president in american history. first, lying about the pandemic and then botching the response, and second, lying about the election, and then instituting this violent attack on the capitol. >> you know, you think about how history books, hundreds of years from now, will be writing about what we're living through right now. right? i mean, in this moment, that we're all living through. how do you think history will look back on this? >> well, it depends, or look on it as the greatest stress test since the civil war in our democracy and we have two pathways. we can try to repair our democracy, to nurture civic virtue or we can follow the path that donald trump has tried, undermining democracy, and threatening our unity. you know, i go back to the 1850s when the nation was racked by
slavery and the slavery conflict destroyed the wig party and what arose out of the wig party was the republican party. yet ironically today the republican party faces the same threat of implosion from within as the wig party, a recent poll showed 45%, get this, of republicans approved of the attack on the capitol, 43% disapprove. the republican party is going to have a very difficult time navigating between these two unpalatable alternatives, risking losing half of its base and perhaps going the way of the wig party. >> right. and you look at this dynamic with the election, basically some have clearly felt like they had to lie about the election in order to make their base happy. it was this weird sort of symbiotic relationship. i want to ask you this before we let you go, allen, the white
house has yet to lower the american flag following the death of the capitol police officer after wednesday's attack. here are some live pictures. how unusual is that? >> it's quite unusual, but it is not unusual for this president. this president has no empathy, no concern for anyone but himself, everything for him is transactional, and he doesn't want to admit that his followers, who stormed the capitol, were responsible for the death of this officer or responsible for the other deaths. you know, one thing that this president is good at is distraction and deflection and we're absolutely seeing that now. he takes no responsibility for anything throughout his presidency, and, you know, harry truman once said the buck stops here at the presidency. well, the donald trump presidency has been the buck stops anywhere but here.
>> all right, allen liktman, thank you so much for your time, we appreciate it. >> my pleasure, pamela. and now to the work of bringing the people who actually stormed the u.s. capitol to justice, police and federal agents across the country are identifying and arresting some of these people, seen smashing windows and breaking down doors. one manmade the search easy by posting a video of himself going into the capitol with the mob. he was an elected official in the state of west virginia. i say was because derek evans resigned that office today. and he now faces federal charges. and the man photographed smiling and carrying the house speaker's lectern was also arrested in florida, adam johnson, now faces multiple charges as well. and let me bring in peter lacotta, a senior law enforcement analyst and former fbi supervisory special agent, peter, good to see you, is there
anything a city's police force can do if a crowd that is big enough and frenzyed enough, is hell bent taking over a building like we saw at the u.s. capitol? >> good evening, yes, it's be prepared. it's do analysis prior to knowing that there's going to be protests and potential violent protests, is prepare yourself, query sources, insert law enforcement into the crowd is what we would call post standers that blend in with the crowd to report that live realtime information back to law enforcement so they can plan and scale their preparedness properly. >> was there a moment you could put your finger on when the people in this crowd changed from a rally of trump supporters to this violent stampede that overwhelmed capitol police? >> yeah, either when you saw people start scaling the side of
the building to get up onto the rotunda area, when they were, you know, using their flags as weapons to try to barricade or force their way into the capitol building. it broke very quickly. law enforcement did the best they could in the reaction of it. i just don't think they could have done a better job preparing for this and futurecasting what the consequences could have been with a better preparedness. >> right, there was a lot of talk about, you know, intelligence sharing this and that but the reality is there was chatter about this on publicly available extremist forums. you didn't have to have classified intelligence access to know that this was going to happen, the president had also been promoting this rally, he had been using that -- the rhetoric about the election being stolen from him and to fight and so forth. it didn't take a lot to know what could happen, but if you would, help us understand what might have been happening when
we saw uniformed officers either stand aside, or to show solidarity with the rioters, taking selfies or fist bumping with them, what do you make of that? >> that's a tough situation to try to judge without being there. obviously when an officer is encountered by hundreds, if not thousands, of people yelling profanities, yelling acts of violence, it's sometimes better to give ground. so it's almost sometimes might be a defense mechanism that law enforcement officer, he's going to arrest all the people around him or her. unfortunately those officers were put in a bad position and they had to do what they could in order to almost survive that situation. >> it's almost incredible when you look at the video that we're showing right now, and how the capitol was just filled up with all of these rioters, how they were actually able to clear out the capitol building safely so that the lawmakers could
continue their work. how were certain leaders or people in positions of power able to whip a crowd of people like this into a mob that is capable of such destruction? what do you make of that and how likely? you look at the profiles of some of these people who went into the capitol building, elected officials, war veterans, ceo, i mean, getting them whipped up, too, to sort of join in in this mob mentality. >> agreed. to your initial point, though, it is a credit to the capitol police and law enforcement, the fact that no members of congress were injured, not hurt. they saved the capitol. they were able to repel the rioters, the insurgents back out and establish order. but to answer your question to the latter, it's about extremism. so i kind of refer back to -- i was asked that question once before by a news reporter and the answer is, in my years, 21
years with the fbi, a lot of that overseas, responding to terrorist attacks conducted by al qaeda, and other terrorist groups, i never saw a leader of an extremist group actually strap on an explosive device on their body and walk into the market. those people in power exploit their masses by espousing rhetoric, they play to their fears, they play to their passions and they unfortunately let the followers do the dirty work for them. that's the problem with extremism and listening to cults of personality. >> we're talking about the president of the united states. do you believe that the president radicalized these people, you know the president's comments are amplified online, that they are then watching and consuming? >> well, that's kind of part of it. they're listening to whoever they espouse their loyalty to. in this case it was the president. and if the president's rallying they're going to almost blindly
listen to those words and almost interpret what he or she is anticipating them to do. >> all right, peter lacotta, thank you, really important perspective there. >> thank you. and there are some developments tonight on the presidential inauguration ceremony, 11 days from now when joe biden takes the oath of office. an administration source now confirming that vice president mike pence will be in attendance. cnn had previously reported that the vice president was waiting for an invitation. athena jones is with me now. joe biden made that invitation pretty clear. >> hi, pamela. well, i think, you know, if you -- this is usually something handled on a staff level. it's not as though it's a wedding that you get an invitation and have to rsvp. it's generally expected that someone like vice president pence would attend the inauguration along with outgoing president trump. the one who's breaking precedent is president trump deciding not to go. but you're right,
president-elect joe biden was asked about this in a press conference in wilmington on friday and he said pence is welcome. he said it's important to try to stick as much as possible to what had been the historical press debits of how there's a turnover of administrations. not only is vice president pence welcome to come, we'd be honored to have him here and to move forward in the transition. that is now very clear, and now we know that pence is going to be going. pamela? >> he is, and the president will not. athena jones, thank you for bringing the latest from delaware. coming up, the insurrection we saw on capitol hill this week was the result of months of disinformation about the presidential election. so what role did conservative media have in it? we're going to take a look up next. ♪
2020's done a new era has begun so keep pushing forward... because this is twenty twenty won make a different future start different at godaddy.com in his life, he's been to the bottom of the ocean. the tops of mountains. the er... twice. and all the places this guy runs off to. like jeff's, a life well lived should continue at home. home instead offers customized services from personal care to memory care, so older adults can stay home, stay safe, and stay happy. home instead. to us, it's personal.
home instead. each febreze car vent clip gives you up to 30 days of fresh air. so, you can have open window freshness... even with all the windows up. enjoy fresh, any time, with febreze. being prepared is a part of who you are. but it's especially important in the case of a disaster. be informed about possible emergencies in your area. make a plan that covers where you'll go in an emergency.
build a kit with the things you need to survive. there is no one more capable of planning for your situation, than you. start your plan today. go to ready.gov/myplan well, wednesday's deadly events at the capitol did not happen in a vacuum. it was the culmination of months and months of disinformation and conspiracy, lies about the election that were sold to citizens by the president, and by conservative media. and even after the insurrection the same people were spreading the same lies that led to the riot. >> the president was right. our election frankly was a train wreck. 80%, 83% according to gallup of republicans and millions of others do not have faith in these election results. you can't just snap your finger and hope that goes away.
>> the capitol was under siege by people who can only be described as antithetical to the maga movement. now, they were likely not all trump supporters and there are some reports that antifa sympathizers may have been sprinkled throughout the crowd. >> we got to this sad chaotic date for a reason, it is not your fault, it is their fault. >> and it makes people very suspicious and very angry when the entire power structure in this country says no, no, no, let's not look at that election at all. so we need to figure this out, so whatever happened yesterday never happens again. >> i'm joined by former fox news chief political correspondent and co-founder of front page live.com. carl cameron. thanks so much for coming on, carl, you were at fox news for, what, two decades so i'm looking forward to hearing your perspective on this. you have fox news and conservative outlets spending months selling their viewers a
lie, about the election being stolen. and then people believed it. and then they acted on it. is conservative media partly to blame here in your view? >> partisan media of any kind is the problem. but the catalyst for that problem is leadership that's false, that's fraudulent. so it starts with donald trump, and that an awful lot of republicans in 2014 and 2015 and 2016 decided that his clown act was just humorous and entertaining enough for them to vote for for president, and right wing media, of all stripes, even "the wall street journal" in some cases, was guilty of perpetuating trump's lies. and when we now have his cabinet secretaries, some of his national security council
members, the senior adviser for africa, the senior adviser for russia and europe, the senior advisers across the board. and the national security aid for the defense department all have quit in the last few days. when people are running interest that type of an administration, it really tells you that some hung on there, and now whether it's rats from a sinking ship, or people who thought they could make a difference, and were wrong, all of the wrong is from donald trump. it really is. fox news, sinclair, all of these other organizations that are parroting his lies are not journalists. and that is a true shame of american journalism and all of our american culture is at risk as a consequence. >> we saw in that clip that lies didn't stop after the insurrection. that was a moment where, you know, you would think we all have to be in agreement here,
what we're seeing is bad but then you had these right wing commentators and fox and elsewhere falsely trying to spin it, that antifa was responsible for it. are you surprised that they didn't step back and honestly assess a moment of such magnitude, and instead of trying to play politics with it, and spin it and gaslight people? >> well, gaslighting and causing fear and anger in people is donald trump's specialty. and unfortunately too much of what calls itself media, and news media at that, is really a perverse entertainment of anger and fear and misdirection, and it's very, very attractive. millions of people watch it. people on their laptops, people on their iphones. even hard core talk radio, it can be very, very seductive.
and it changes how people think. it messes up brains. it messes up families and yes, it messes up nations. >> well, you have to think, it's like a diet, right, when you watch what you put in your body, you should watch what you put in your mind and these people are being sold disinformation. what is the remedy to this? where do you see this going? >> well, it's interesting to hear mike pence say i'll think about it in terms of what he may or may not do in the next few days. we're now already getting word out of the white house that, well, maybe the president's changed his mind in this business of a peaceful transition of power, maybe he's going to change his mind again. this is a president who has flip-flopped on things within 24-hour periods very, very, very regularly in the last four years. so whether he behaves nicely in one moment and doesn't in the next shouldn't surprise us. >> but what about the media? what's the cure for the media --
go ahead. >> honesty, truth, facts, trying to do the right thing. there's a responsibility in journalism to not do any harm. the hippocratic oath for doctors. when people are being lied to and journalists know that it's false and they are misleading the public it's damn near criminal and something needs to be done about that and it starts with leadership. if joe biden can get in front of the media and actually get a fair shake, i'd be shocked given the wreckage that trump is leaving. so it's going to take a long, long time. trump's four years could be generations to undo. >> carl cameron, we'll leave it there. thank you so much for coming on and sharing your perspective and for your time this saturday. >> thanks, pam. >> be sure to join cnn's wolf blitzer for the trump insurrection, 24 hours that shook america, a look at what happened at the u.s. capitol and what's next. this new cnn special report airs tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern.
and in the first nine days of 2021 the u.s. has reported more than 2 million new coronavirus cases, and 24,000 deaths. we're going to take you inside hard hit icu in california up next. did i feed you? but taking prescriptions shouldn't be one of them. cvs simpledose presorts your prescriptions into packets, so you know what to take when. delivered at no cost. is this clean? visit cvs.com. (burk(customer) deep-something like that... is this clean? (burke) well, here's something else: with your farmer's policy perk, new car replacement, you can get a new one. (customer) that is something else. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ let's get checked for those around us. let's get checked for a full range of conditions. introducing letsgetchecked a health testing you do at home. let's get round the clock support from a team of nurses.
let's get fast, accurate results. know your health. know yourself. order now at letsgetchecked dot com who invented we're car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot and pick up your car, that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana.
tarting to hit and officials are warning of more alarming patterns to come. the total number of americans right now infected with coronavirus has surpassed 22 million, more than 372,000 people have died. and in california the effects are hitting especially hard with some hospitals now running out of room for their most desperately ill patients. cnn's sara sidner has more on the struggle to keep up. >> pamela, i know you remember those awful images from hospitals in new york city when the pandemic just began they were packed to the gills. now that same scenario is playing out here in southern california in some hospitals. >> i've never seen the e.r. like this before in our whole time being here. >> reporter: this is what covid-19 looks like in california in 2021, a hellscape. >> the death toll has been out
of this world. >> reporter: on the edge of the mojave desert in apple valley you can see the crisis even before you walk in. >> keep that in your nose, okay. >> reporter: patients arrive constantly, some by ambulance, some on foot. >> what's going on today? >> reporter: a california national guard strike team of medics and nurses arrives daily. >> this is an area of great need. and we're glad to be here. you know, when i first got in it felt like maybe a band-aid on an arterial bleed. >> reporter: a gush of patients that just won't stop. >> 80% of our patients are covid. >> reporter: temporary plastic walls erected all over this hospital, create a maesz of covid pods. patients with other emergencies line the halls. the hospital is so full here that some of the patients you're seeing in the hallways will have to wait seven to ten days to get a room. they need to be admitted to the hospital but they're being cared for in the hallways for now.
upstairs in the 20 bed icu -- >> in icu we see death and dying on a daily basis but never to this scale. >> reporter: every intensive care unit bed is full, every staff member busy saving patients. >> we have over 50 icu patients in the hospital right now and we only have the staff to care for about 20 of them. so we are being stretched. the nurses are being pushed to their absolute breaking points, and then a little further every day. >> rapid response, 238. >> reporter: the sound track here. a never ending series of beeping, codes and rapid response calls, alerting staff when someone's heart has stopped, or breathing has stalled. that's what's happening behind this curtain in this a newly created covid unit. a covid-19 patient in pain can't catch her breath.
nurses and doctors can't either working every day to exhaustion. >> the physical toll, of course, and there's also an emotional toll. it's really hard to see all these patients die. mortality has been very, very high. >> reporter: are you okay? >> i guess i'm still standing but, you know, we'll see. give it a few months. >> reporter: but right now a patient needs him. he's on life support. covid pneumonia is on the attack. his lung has collapsed. there's a scramble to insert a chest tube, the difference between life and death, razor thin. >> people don't take it seriously until they're here with us. or until they're on the other line of that phone call talking to their family member for the last time. it is real. it is serious. and most of what we're seeing is preventable. >> reporter: the hospital is making space in every nook and cranny. but the crush of patients threatens to overwhelm the space, and the staff, every single day. everyone here expects this to
get worse before coronavirus takes its last breath. it is hard not to be shaken, simply from the sounds that we heard inside that emergency room and inside all of those covid pods. we should also mention that this really is a story about the numbers, each one representing a human life, a family suffering, the numbers here are astronomical when it comes to the number of people who have tested positive for coronavirus. some 40,000 people a day. pam? >> that is astounding. sara sidner, thank you. meantime, twitter and facebook both banned president trump for inciting violence on capitol hill this week. but what repercussions should social media sites face for their role in spreading misinformation. a former adviser to mark zuckerberg joins me next. so through ancestry,
i discovered my great aunt ruth signed up as a nursing cadet for world war ii. she was only 17. bring your family history to life like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com don't settle for less. revitalift triple power with pro-retinol plus hyaluronic acid and vitamin c. it visibly reduces wrinkles. firms. and brightens. now that's triple power. revitalift triple power moisturizer from l'oreal. we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa
wicked smart. so we built an education just as smart. so smart it can work at my speed? yep. with flexpath, you can finish your bachelors degree on your terms and budget. capella university. don't just learn. learn smarter. capella university. each febreze car vent clip gives you up to 30 days of fresh air. so, you can have open window freshness... even with all the windows up. enjoy fresh, any time, with febreze.
you need to see in the dark. to have the wisdom to understand multiple cyber threats. the precision focus to end attacks instantly. on computers, mobile devices, servers and the cloud. join the world's leading companies in our mission to defend. cybereason. end cyber attacks. from endpoints to everywhere.
a right wing reckoning on social media on friday twitter permanently banned president trump from its platform for inciting this week's insurrection and just breaking tonight amazon will remove parlor from its choud cloud hosting service tomorrow, kicking the app off the public internet until it finds a new host. it's called an unbiased media
platform popular with the right removed from the apple store today as well. my next guest was an early facebook adviser, and now committed to reforming the tech giants. roger mcnamee joins me now. you're the author of zuct, waking up to the facebook catastrophe. starting with twitter. what do you think of twitter's move? >> so, pamela, i think the key thing to keep in mind is that inciting insurrection against one of the branches of government, in this case the congress, at an event where the vice president and the next two people in the chain of succession to the president were all in attendance, a violent insurrection, that that is the greatest crime any president could possibly commit. i mean, in the old days it almost certainly would have been
a capital crime. the notion that we're focused on what he's saying about twitter in my mind is actually misplaced. this could not be a more serious offense if it tried. and i think twitter banning trump is literally the bare minimum that they could have done and these other tech giants taking action against the enablers of what trump did here is literally the bare minimum. our democracy is hanging on by a thread. and internet platforms have played a huge role in putting us here and it's really long past time for them to take responsibility and to begin to behave as good corporate citizens. >> what do you say to critics of twitter's move? you had mike pompeo, nikki haley, many others, particularly on the right, who have been critical of it, saying this is something we'd expect to see in china, not in the united states. what do you have to say to all the criticism about this, and that there is authoritarian regime leaders who are still on twitter and yet you would kick off president trump, what is your response to them?
>> it's a very simple one, let's keep in mind that the president of the united states, and all of those people you just mentioned, have been enablers of denial of a covid pandemic that has now killed nearly 370,000 americans, which the ratio of that is so much higher as a percentage of our population than any other developed country in the world. i mean, it's literally, like ten times as bad as over developed countries. and so these internet platforms have enabled the disinformation that undermined our pandemic response and again, i think this was -- this isn't about politics left ore right. this is about public safety and public health. i just think the internet platforms have behaved horribly and quite candidly, the trump administration, all the people in it, and the media companies around them have been enablers of this massive essentially death cult against american people. and i'm deeply, deeply troubled.
we're sitting there arguing about whether this is about freedom of speech when, in fact, you know, hundreds of thousands of americans are needlessly dead because of -- >> do you think they should have banned earlier then? >> oh, much earlier. i mean, the issue here is, i believe that when we have the accounting here, we're going to see that the business model that powers youtube, facebook, instagram, twitter ask other parts of google and other platforms, that's surveillance capitalism, that business model is just incompatible with democracy and it's incompatible with public health and i just believe that as a country we're facing a moment of reckoning right now where we have to decide what matters to us, are we going to be a democracy? are we going to be capitalists? are we going to have opportunity for everyone? are we going to treat everyone with respect? that has not been the track record of the past four years, and the country -- i mean, we've barely survived the last four years. and it's not clear that we're out of the woods here. >> you were at facebook during
the early days. were there discussions then about how this could happen, how something like this could happen, how it could be used as a platform to perpetuate disinformation like this and essentially evil? >> so i was only involved with mark zuckerberg as an adviser from 2006 to 2009. mark was 22 when i first started working with him, the company was tiny. so it -- you know, it couldn't even dream of being global on the days that i was involved with it. so the answer is no. all of this came as a huge shock to me. it was my expectation that as mark grew up, and as the company got bigger, he would do what most executives do, which is to embrace success and become a good corporate citizen and work really hard to integrate with society and to be a constructive partner in it and, you know, the reality is the culture of business in america is broken. we have monopolies in almost every industry.
they are authoritarian by nature and they have not -- i don't, in any sector of the country, have we seen the kind of civic minded corporate leadership that we used to see a generation or two ago. i think that's one of the things we're going to have to settle going forward. because authoritarian business, which is what we've had in this country, leads to authoritarian government. and, you know, i think we're seeing what that looks like now and i hope that people are saying we don't like that, we want to become the america that is a shining symbol of freedom and equality, of opportunity, and, you know, that we have a capitalist system that encourages innovation and, you know, making people's lives better instead of worse. >> lastly, how do you envision facebook and other social media platforms paying for their role, essentially, in the insurrection, as you have said you think that they should pay a price. what should that be? >> so, you know, pamela, this is a really important point. there are three areas of
regulation we need to see as soon as possible. we need to see regulation around safety. these companies have to be accountable for harm. they have to have incentives to anticipate and prevent harms. the way you would see, you know, in the chemicals industry or in the building trades, where people really are personally accountable, and have to do the right thing all the time. we have to see rules around privacy, to protect people from having their lives manipulated without their ability to control it and then lastly we need to restore competition. we need to get away from monopoly, back to capitalism and have the tech industry be a growth engine for the economy again. that's not where we are today. we need it creating jobs. you know, it's a great opportunity, pamela, and i hope we see it. >> roger, thank you so much. appreciate it. we'll be right back. [laugh]
half staff, the capitol hill community is reeling over the death of a capitol police officer. but with their sorrow, some, including members of congress are also expressing anger. >> my heart goes out to officer sicknick's family. there are a lot of people who have officer sicknick's blood on their hands. >> the way that they went out or the way that he died was unnecessary. >> reporter: capitol hill police say officer sicknick was injured on wednesday while, quote, physically engaging with protester, that he then returned to his division office and collapsed. he died late thursday. the youngest of three sons born and raised in south river, new jersey, brian sicknick is being called a hero by his family tonight. the family saying he wanted to a police officer his entire life. as a means to that ends he joined the new jersey air national guard.
he was deployed to saudi arabia and kyrgyzstan. sicknick was honorably discharged from the new jersey national guard in 2003 and joined the capitol hill police in 2008. capitol hill police say sicknick most recently served in the force's first responders unit. one capitol hill officer says the job is dangerous even under normal circumstances. >> every day is a -- your life is at danger. it's no promise that you're going to come home the next day or the same day that you come out. every officer that swears in takes the job very seriously, protect congress. >> reporter: officer sicknick and his colleagues, though by most accounts overwhelmed by the rioters are praising congress, whom they fought to protect. >> many of our capitol police acted so bravely and with such concern for the staff, for the members, for the capitol of the united states.
many of the men -- and they deserve our gratitude. >> we were all very fortunate that the capitol hill police that were there were thinking as quickly as they had. if they had automatic weapons they could have killed hundreds of members of congress. >> reporter: tonight, one of the men who helped prevent that horror is being remembered by his family for his empathy, commitment to rescuiing dogs an love of the new jersey devils. brian sicknick's family asks the public and media not to make his passing, quote, a political issue, but his death will be the subject of a federal murder investigation with the capitol police and d.c. metro poll ton police taking part. brian todd, washington. >> thank you, brian. after the death of brian sicknick, house speaker nancy pelosi ordered all flags at the capitol to be flown at half
staff in his memory. but as of tonight at the white house, the president has yet to order flags to be flown at half staff, days after five americans lost their lives in the pro-trump mob that stormed capitol hill, and the president has yet to personally offer his condolences. yet the white house did release a statement from the deputy press secretary. and vice president mike pence who was also at the hill during the siege tweeted his condolences and called sicknick an american hero. i'm pamela brown. thanks for joining me. cnn's special coverage with kate bolduan starts next. ♪
2020's done a new era has begun so keep pushing forward... because this is twenty twenty won make a different future start different at godaddy.com (young woman)) don't worry about it, me home. grandma! this will be fun. two chocolate milkshakes please. (grandmother) did you get his number? (young woman) no, grandma! grandma!! (grandmother) excuse me! (young woman vo) some relationships get better with time. that's why i got a crosstrek. (avo) 97 percent of subaru vehicles sold in the last ten years are still on the road.
love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. get 0% for 63 months on select new 2021 models now through february 1st. sai realized i wanted gradto go back to schoolol. because i didn't want to work these back-breaking jobs the rest of my life. with the help of my father and having my son, it was all the motivation i needed to come back to school. i felt accomplished. it made me feel that i could take on whatever challenges life throws at you. vo: find free adult education classes near you at finishyourdiploma.org
hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. thank you so much for joining me. the big question right now is how will president trump's term end in the wake of the cooperate riot? with a resignation, a historic second impeachment, or maybe removal through the 25th amendment. a source close to the vice president mike pence tells cnn's jim acosta that mike pence is not ruling an an effort to invoke the 25th. and get this -- he, mike pence, and the president have not even spoken since the insurrection according to sources. mike pence was caught in the middle of what you are looking
at, caught in the middle of that riot. he's in the capitol at the time along with his family and the president of the united states has not even called him. whatever happens, pressure is growing in both parties to force the issue rather than let the president just ride out the clock and leave on his own terms. house speaker nancy pelosi told her democratic colleagues to be ready to return to washington this week. here is how congressman ted lieu describes the situation. >> all of us, including speaker pelosi would prefer that donald trump do the right thing and simply resign or that vice president pence actually shows some spine, at least for himself and his own family, and invoke the 25th amendment. if none of that happens when on monday we'll dangerous the article of impeachment, which is incitement to insurrection, and we do expect a floor vote coming this week. >> at least 83 people have been arrested since the violent riots wednesday at the u.s. capitol,
including some of the people now made infamous in these photographs that you're looking at and have hopefully seen. one of the most disturbing new videos shows a officer screaming in agony in pain as he is being crushed by the pro-trump mob that's trying to force its way into the capitol. i want to warn uh-uh may find it disturbing. >> help! aah! help ! >> he did survive. sadly enough, we need to make that point because of what we know now happened to so many in the capitol. and remember, one capitol hill
police officer did die in the insurrection, yet the president said nothing about him or any of the other four people who have died. the white house hasn't even taken the step to honor the officer that was killed by lowering flags to half staff. you can see a live look at the white house right there, the american flag flying high. so far, just nothing but stunning silence from the president. the mob wasn't only targeting congress, though. they also wanted the vice president. they made that loud and clearle. >> hey, mike pence! hey, mike pence! hang, mike pence! >> hang mike pence is what they were shouting. john hardwood is joining me now. thanks for coming on. hearing those chants targeting pence and then learning trump hasn't reached out to him in the days since then, it is truly shocking. what are you hearing about this?
>> look, kate, donald trump has shown us very clearly that he's psychologically disturbed, that he's not capable of recognizing or actsiing on the difference between right and wrong, that he doesn't possess empathy, that he's concerned exclusively about himself. the you're somebody that working for donald trump because he is that way and you are constrained by a sense of law and propriety, eventually he's going to ask you to do something you're not willing to do. that's what happened with mike pence. the president signalled he would turn on pence if he upheld his constitutional duty. pence decided to do that any way. when he did it, the president attacked him afterwards. what donald trump is now feeling about mike pence is not empathy over the fact that people were threatening to hang mike pence. it's rage that he didn't do what donald trump wanted. that's when the white house finally put out a statement on
this subject in the name of a deputy press secretary, it did not even include mike pence's name. it said we decry threats of violence against any member of the administration. that shows the mind it and illness of president trump. >> it doesn't even come from the president, doesn't come from the press secretary, and it doesn't mention mike pence's name. it was like a rogue statement that could have been issued by an intern at the white house, and that's probably offending interns. it's remarkable, and it's hard to be astonished at this point. now you have mike pence not ruling out an effort to invoke the 25th amendment. what do you think that really means? what do you think he's doing with? >> what i think he's doing, kate, is what members of the administration have done privately to the president, what republican senators have done by saying he should resign, what nancy pelosi is doing by holding
out the threat of impeachment -- they're all trying to keep the pressure on donald trump for the purpose of deterring him from doing anything more harmful to the nation for the next week and a half that he is still president. we saw the other night that once he felt that heat, that pressure from across the political system, including mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leader and many others, he then put out that statement finally recognizing that he's not going to be president after january 20th. that's something that he didn't want to do, that he was brow beaten into doing, but it was important that his supporters hear that from him at least once. he is regretting that statement now. nevertheless it shows he responds to pressure. they're trying to keep the pressure on. and if he's impeached, which could happen next week -- not likely there's going to be a trial any time soon, but again, the entire political system, as well as the private sector, social media companies are
trying to signal this was an extremely serious threat to the country that occurred and we're going to do everything we can to stop it from happening again. >> just hold on. because if he made that statement and regrets it, you never know what's going to come out of his mouth next or what's going to happen next. thank you, john. right now there is a coast to coast manhunt for those people who you saw, you've seen on video and also on social media who took part in the violent attack on the capitol. evan perez has more on what has become a massive investigation. >> reporter: federal authorities around the country are working through the weekend, hunting down some of the people involve in the wednesday's terrorist attack on the u.s. capitol. we know of at least 18 arrests on federal charges and dozens more are facing charges in local court here in washington. among these others are adam johnson, arrested in his home state of florida. he's seen in pictures carrying house speaker nancy pelosi's lectern. also arrested, jacob chansley in
arizona, seen inside the capital wearing face paint and a bear skin hat. the fbi says chansley told them he came to washington because donald trump called for his supporters to come and that he organized a group to heed the president's call to action. another member of the group facing charges, derrick evans a delegate in the west virginia legislature, and he announced he is resigning his seat. five people died in wednesday's mob scene, including a capitol police officer who was taattack by the pro-trump crowd. serious charges against suspects, including a man who drove from alabama with a truck allegedly carrying bombs and a handgun and rifle. another man arrested with firearms allegedly told friends he came to kill speaker nancy pelosi. evan perez, cnn, washington. >> evan, thank you so much. democratic congressman from
arizona, reuben gallego is among those calling for trump to be removed from office one way or the other. that's him on top of the desk in the images we're showing you. he's a former marine. he leapt into the action. he also sheltered journalists in his office. he was one of the last people to leave his house floor. when the house returned, as we know now hours and hours to the floor after the siege, i want to play for you some of what congressman gallego said to his colleagues. >> madam speaker, i left my youth, my sanity, i left it all in iraq for this country, because there was this one precious idea we all had, we all believed, that this country was going to protect every individual's rights. that you are going to be able to vote, preserve democracy, and
pass it on as a legacy, as an inheritance to every american. but today there was treason in this house. >> congressman reuben gallego, he joins me now. thank you for coming on. i want to ask you about the day in a second. because your words were really striking that evening to me and so many other people. but first on the immediate -- what we're looking at right now. cnn has learned that the vice president according to sources is not ruling out an effort to invoke the 25th amendment. what do you take from that? what does that mean to you right now? >> that means nothing. right now we need two things. we need accountability and some type of insurance that this president is not going to overstep his boundaries again between now and inauguration. and this type of lack of decision-making on behalf of the vice president, which is the only thing that triggers the 25th amendment does not give us any types of assurances.
we need to therefore continue with impeachment. >> what's going to have to happen this week with impeachment? >> since we're not getting two things -- i don't believe trump's going to resign and i don't think we're getting the 25th amendment. we'll vote on impeachment tuesday and then it will go over to the house. the most important thing we're trying to anne sure is number one, accountability. the president of the united states essentially ordered an insurrection, a mob at congress while we were trying to do our duties and count the electoral college votes. number one, it's important we do that for the sake of history so presidents know they can't use their short time left in office do this without any repercussions. number two, we can't predict what else this madman is going to do. having impeachment on the docket is also really important, and a minimum will keep him at bay until we have a safe transfer of power to joe biden.
>> still worth it even as mitch mcconnell is signaling the senate isn't going to -- he says the senate -- there isn't enough time for a senate impeachment trial to happen. you still think it is worth it to move forward in the house with impeachment. >> i've seen mitch mcconnell move with swift urgency when they needed to confirm a supreme court justice. i've seen him move fairly quickly when they needed to get tax cuts for all their buddies. i'm pretty sure if we send an impeachment or this president oversteps his boundaries he'll found himself overrun by senators that better understand democracy and i think that matters. i want to point out also, at the end of the day, mitch mcconnell is now one of 50 senators. he's not necessarily in charge. >> do you think you're going to have any republican support in the house for impeachment? >> i hope so. i think there's a lot of
republicans that were disgusted by what happened. hopefully the republicans that, you know, i saw on the floor with me that were in fear, that were swearing at donald trump under their breaths and in the secure room will find their counselor to actually come and join us on this. but at the end of the day, if it's just democrats that have to hold this president accountable and set the precedent that you can't try to bully, can't try to stop the process of democracy, you know, 14 days before the -- before swearing in on inauguration day, then we'll do it. i think at this point the united states people are used to democrats being the ones that are responsible and being the ones that hold government accountable. >> obviously the focus needs to be on what's next and what comes next, but i do not think people really appreciate just how real, dangerous, and truly horrific it was as it played out in the
capital as you guys were on the floor. you are a marine, as i mentioned at the top. you have talked about how you had to lean on that training in those moments. there's been a period of days have passed. how do you describe what you all lived through now? >> it was just utter chaos. you know, there was a lack of leadership, i would say, from the capitol police. you know, there wasn't really clear directions, even when they told people to get their gas masks ready, there wasn't any direction about how to put the gas mask on, which is what initially got me more involved, i guess, in that process. there was a real fear in the air. and i really thought that at some point this crowd or this, you know, mob of terrorists would break through and they would assault us. and, you know, from what i saw on my way out, that's exactly what was about to happen.
you know, i saw this very slim, very flimsy door being barricaded by some small chairs and two security guards with weapons. had they gotten through that, and if it wasn't for the police officer shooting that terrorist trying to come through, we probably would have had a problem. they would have overran us and we would have had fatalities among the members of congress. >> congressman, thanks for coming on. >> thank you. coming up for us, there is a second impeachment in the works as we have just been discussing but there are only a few days left in the trump presidency. setting aside the politics, as talking about, is there enough time to get this done? we're going to ask an expert. plus, president trump's fighting words just ahead of the riots. >> we're going to have to fight much harder. i fight, they fight, i fight, they fight, boom boom.
we might. and we fight like hell and you don't you're not going to have a country anymore. excuses. we're all guilty of making them. those are advanced poses. that's why at cvs, we're making not making excuses a little easier, with the vitamins and supplements you may need. now get a $10 gift card when you spend $30. cvs. healthier made easier.
faster results than ever. they should expect the same from their education, too. with flexpath from capella university, you can complete your rn-to-bsn program in 9 months and under $10,000. capella university. don't just learn, learn smarter. (burke)stomer)versity. happy anniversary. (customer) for what? (burke) every year you're with us, you get fifty dollars toward your home deductible. it's a policy perk for being a farmers customer. (customer) do i have to do anything? (burke) nothing. (customer) nothing? (burke) nothing. (customer) nothing? (burke) nothing. (customer) hmm, that is really something. (burke) you get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. see ya. (kid) may i have a balloon, too? (burke) sure. your parents have maintained a farmers home policy for twelve consecutive months, right? ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ (burke) start with a quote at 1-800-farmers.
vicks vapopatch. easy to wear with soothing vicks vapors for her, for you, for the whole family. trusted soothing vapors, from vicks house democrats are actively preparing new impeachment articles against donald trump. they say the -- he -- is too great. nancy pelosi says they're prepared to creintroduce the articles as soon as monday. we spoke a congressman who
thinks they'll vote tuesday or wednesday. sources say he is considering rudy giuliani and alan der dershowitz for his defense team. manu raju has the latest. >> reporter: democrats are pushing full steam ahead to give donald trump the distinction of being the only president in history to be impeached twice. impeachment vote early in the week. now the question is exactly when nancy pelosi will make it official that they will go down this route. she's indicating they plan to do just that, because she's demanded the president resign or vice president pence take the extraordina extraordinary constitutional actions to force the president out of the office by the 25th amendment of the united states. pence is showing no indication he is doing that. the president is showing no indication he's going to step
aside, so democrats are moving forward away impeachment resolution, accusing him of insurrection. democrats trying to get cosponsors from both sides of the aisle to sign on. the democrats believe they're making good progress to getting most if not all of their members on board. there are 222 democrats in the house. there's an expectation that they'll be able to get a majority of support within the full house when the chamber votes, potentially by the middle of the week. the big question will be what happens then? because there will only be a few days left in donald trump's presidency, and there's no indication the senate will come back before january 19th to begin an impeachment trial to remove him. mitch mcconnell indicated it would require the support of all 100 senators to change the schedule and come back into the session for a trial. that essentially is not going to happen. so that may mean that an impeachment trial may be kicked
into the new administration when joe biden takes office in january 20th. at the same time democrats will assume control of the senate majority, so the question will be how that impeachment trial would work in a democratic majority with a democratic president trying to go after a former president, trying to convict him on inciting an insurrection and prevent him from holding office again. a lot of questions remain for the moment. democrats are furious the president's role in the wednesday mob that led to multiple people dieing and deaths and clashes, including one police officer, u.s. capitol police officer, who died. and they believe the president needs to pay a price for that. so impeachment seems almost certain to happen in a matter of days. manu raju, capitol hill. >> thank you so much. joining me now, the senate's chief adviser on the interpretation of all of the senate's rules and procedures.
thank you for coming on. can you talk to me about how this would work? do you think the president can be impeached in a span of a week? >> i think if the will is there in the senate, that could be accomplished. >> manu was mentioning kind of the position that mitch mcconnell has right now. "the washington post" obtained a memo that is being circulated by the senator, where he argues that he does not think it is possible to hold a senate trial before trump's term ends. here is how he explains it in part. he writes in this memo, again, it would require the consent of all 100 senators to conduct any business of any kind during the proforma session prior to january 19, and the therefore the consent of the all 100 senators to begin acting on articles of impeachment during those sessions. is he right? what is he saying here? >> well, what he's referring to is the fact that the senate has established a series of proforma
sessions by unanimous consent, and during those sessions the terms of the proforma sessions are that no business may be transacted. so on the face of the consent agreement on these sessions and prohibiting business until the senate reconvenes for actual business on the 19th, that's a plausible state of affairs, it's a plausible interpretation of what those orders provide. however, it's possible there's a way of getting around that. a couple of years after 9/11, the senate adopted a resolution authorizing its two leaders to modify the time of convening of a session of the senate. this was done really in response to 9/11 when the senate could not convene on 9/11 but needed to convene on 9/12.
but it has no authority to convene on september 12th at the hour that the leaders wanted to convene. nonetheless, they sent around a hot line and told the senators, we're convening on september 12th. at least one senator who's the guardian of the senate rules, robert c. byrd, came to me alarmed the senate had convened in essence without authority. we discussed the need for some authority, something that would give the two leaders of the senate the same kind of authority that every school board has when two feet of snow is approaching to either cancel school or delay the beginning of the school day. the senate did adopt a resolution several years late they are basically authorizes the two leaders, if they believe circumstances warrant it, to, quote, modify a convening time.
>> so, yeah, to your point, if there's a will, there's a way. that's exactly -- that seems to be exactly it. before i have to let you go, can you just give me your opinion on what an impeachment trial after trump's term expires would look like? >> well, the senate has in fact conducted an impeachment trial of the secretary of war in 1876 after he resigned. and so a trial can occur against somebody who is no longer in the office from which his impeachable actions emanated. it would be unusual. there are -- we have obviously a case -- under the constitution, when the president is tried, the chief justice of the united states must preside over the
trial. of course the constitution doesn't contemplate a trial of a former president, and so we don't know -- at least i don't know -- whether or not chief justice roberts, let's say, would begin presiding if the proceedings began before donald trump -- before his term ended and he was out of office and whether or not chief justice roberts would reside, but then abandon the chair when joe biden became president. so these proceedings, if they go forward, shall away we say, will be plowing now ground. nothing any of us has seen before. >> allen, your knowledge is amazing. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. no matter what happens in the aftermath of the u.s. capitol, joe biden is set to take the oath of office as president of the united states in 11 days. sources tell cnn vice president mike pence will be attending the
inauguration. as we now know, his boss, donald trump, announced he not. biden said friday pence would be welcome. athena jones is standing by with the latest. biden was crystal clear on saying mike pence is welcome to the inauguration. what he was not so clear about was when he has been asked a couple of times now about whether the president -- he thinks the president of the united states should be impeached. what are you hearing about that? >> reporter: hi, kate. you're right. president-elect biden has not been beating the drums for impeachment. he's not been eager to add his voice to the democrats calling for this. there are two competing themes. you have accountability, holding president trump accountable. but there's also the theme of healing. we know biden all during his run for the white house has been using the theme of unifying the country, bringing the country together, as one of his main arguments. so those are the competing
themes. he was asked about whether he thought bringing articles of impeachment was a good idea during a press conference friday. he didn't answer. he said several things, talking about the timing. saying if there was six months to go, you throw everything at it, try for impeachment or the 25th amendment. but then ended up saying, look, i need focus on -- i am focused on the future, on my agenda i want carried out. he said it's going to be a decision up to congress what they do. but i'm focused on the virus, on the vaccine, on economic growth. one of the first things he wanted to do is make sure most americans get that $2,000 stimulus check. he wants to hit the ground running. that's where the conflict lies if this goes into the next senate. they'll be trying to do that while biden is trying to have his team confirmed and get his agenda off the ground. >> great point. fascinating. thank you so much. coming up, federal prosecutors are looking at everyone involved in the siege on the capitol hill. does that include donald trump
it's time you make the rules. so join the 2 million people who have switched to xfinity mobile. you can choose from the latest phones or bring your own device and choose the amount of data that's right for you to save even more. and you'll get nationwide 5g at no extra cost. all on the most reliable network. so choose a data option that's right for you. get nationwide 5g included and save up to $300 a year on the network rated #1 in customer satisfaction. it's your wireless. your rules. only with xfinity mobile.
welcome back to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm kate bolduan. thanks for sticking with us. a source close to the vice president, mike pence is not ruling out an effort to invoke the 25th amendment to remove president trump in office. that would allow them to remove donald trump from office, deeming him unfit to carry out highs duties.
weaver also hearing president trump and the vice president have not spoken since the insurrection. have not spoken since wednesday. meanwhile, house democrats are saying they are on track to sbrus an article of impeachment against president trump as early as monday for instigating and incites the riot you're looking at now. the big question is, with will this be a bipartisan effort unlike the last impeachment? at least 85 people arrested since the riot. including some of the people who have become infamous in these photos. also remember that one capitol hill police officer died in this siege. yet, the president has said nothing about him or any of the four people who died quite frankly. there there's a live picture of the white house. the white house has not taken the step to honor that police officer by lowering the flags to half staff. they have done that on capitol hill. joining me now former federal prosecutor elie honig for more
on the legal path forward. as i mentioned, at least 83 people arrest in the connect with the riots. when you see the pictures from capitol hill, that number still feels low to me. how is this all going to play out when you are talking about thousands of people involved here? >> kate, i agree. 83, this is a decent start, but there were hundreds if not thousands of people inside that capitol building. and to be clear, everyone who went inside that capital building without authorization is guilty of at least a low level federal crime. plenty of people are guilty of far more -- destruction of property up to and including murder. people were killed inside that building. how it ought to work is federal prosecutors and law enforcement agents around the country needc. every single one of them needing to be found, prosecutored and
held accountable. >> there has been talk of the justice department investigating president trump for his role in the riots. would this be difficult to do? >> it would be difficult to do. i'm under no illusion about that. to charge somebody who is the former president, if we get to that point? people who commit hands with their own crimes are certainly guilty, but under our legal system, so to is anyone who inkii incited them or aided and abetted them, who fired them up, encouraged them. if you look at the president's words, the way he spoke to them, come down to d.c. he told them to go down to the capitol, show strength. that's exactly what they did. best evidence to me is look what the president said after they were done ransacking the capitol. he praisesed them. he said, great patriots. remember this day. i would hold this up to a jury and say, that's his intent.
not an easy case to bring, but prosecutors' jobs sometimes is to bring tough cases. >> is this something that the biden justice department could pick up on and take up after january 20th? >> 100%, yeah. this will not be anywhere near done by january 20th. this will take months to find everybody, identify everybody. i think the biden doj has an obligation to take a hard look. not just the people smashing windows, but the people behind it. that includes the president, other people who spoke at that rally. therewith assist an obligation to open an investigation, get all the facts and make an impartial decision. >> separate from that, we are looking at a -- a very quick move towards impeachment in the house. and potentially -- maybe, maybe not -- in the senate. but in anticipation of that, we have reporting that the president is considering who would be representing him in an impeachment trial, that he's considering bringing on rudy giuliani and alan dershowitz to
defend him in a senate impeachment trial. your take on that? >> i'll try to be polite. i guess i would call those picks suboptimal. alan dershowitz -- people can agree or disagree. i think he's fully discredited himself by positions he took in the last impeachment. rudy giuliani is the worst pick possible for a couple of reasons. first of all, he's part of this. he stood in front of the crowd moments before they went to the capitol and said, trial by combat. he was one of the biggest factors behind pushing the lie that drove this whole thing, the lie that the election was stolen. not to mention, rudy giuliani is under federal investigation right now. might be in a position where he wants a pardon. he's got conflicts of interest all over the place. the president can choose who he wants but rudy giuliani would be a ridiculous decision for him. >> elie, thanks for coming on. social media companies pulled the plug on president
trump and he is furious. coming up, new cnn reporting on how trump intends to hit back. stay with us. it's time for the lowest prices of the season on the new sleep number 360 smart bed. what if i sleep hot? or cold? no problem, with temperature balancing you can sleep better together. can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. will it help me keep up with mom? you got this. so you can really promise better sleep? not promise. ...prove. don't miss our weekend special. save up to $1000 on new sleep number 360 smart beds. plus 0% interest for 48 months. ends monday.
to learn more, go to sleepnumber.com in his life, he's been to the bottom of the ocean. the tops of mountains. the er... twice. and all the places this guy runs off to. like jeff's, a life well lived should continue at home. home instead offers customized services from personal care to memory care, so older adults can stay home, stay safe, and stay happy.
president trump is set this week to ramp up his fight against twitter and the other social media platforms that have now banned him. aides are encouraging the president to frame the ban as an example of big tech's alleged anti-conservative bias, as a way to galvanize his base and shift attention away from the horrific tragedy of wednesday's insurrection at the capitol and blame he's earned. if president trump is looking for a new platform with a huge reach, the right-wing social media app parler might not be it. apple, zam, and zogoogle are removing it, effectively shutting it down. what does this all mean going forward? joining me now for for the editor-in-chief of "wired," nick thompson. what do you think that looks like, first and foremost, if trump is going to be ramping up
his fight against twitter and other social media platforms this week? >> well, i think he'll be denouncing them. he'll be asking his allies to denounce them. he'll be saying it's a violation of the free speech. it's an example of conservative bias. it's a reason the tech companies need to be broken up. he'll experiment on other platforms. but the truth is they're his biggest mega phones so it will be hard to have get the message out than a week ago. >> what the president has already been saying and will continue to say is this move the sensorship. this is stifling free speech is what he and other conservatives say about this. do you think the social media platforms themselves have pushed back forcefully enough against this line, against this narrative? >> i don't know if they have. i mean, the complexity of trump's narrative is that in a way he is right -- his speech is
being stifled. on the other hand it's a private company. the private company can do whatever it wants. it's a problem when the government stifles someone's speech, not when a company stifles the government's speech. i don't think the tech companies and platforms, though, have done a good job making their arguments coherently. why? because their arguments aren't coherent. if they were going to kick trump off platforms from violating terms of service, they could have done it at any point. they chose this particular moment because of the circumstances of last week buck they're in a little bit of a bind because they haven't acted with total clarity over the last four years. >> obviously people have been making the case for his entire presidency trump should be tossed off twitter and facebook and the like. did it surprise you it actually happened? >> new york it didn't surprise
me, and it didn't surprise fe more t me for two reasons. twitter has lots of terms you can violate. and he's violated a lot of them, but he's never incited violence. that's number one. that's reason number one. reason number two, the main reason they didn't kick him off or a main reason is that they were scared of him because he's the president and he had a lot of power and he can pass laws and cause problems. he's not going to be the president in two weeks, so they're not afraid of him, so they can penalize him. so in some ways it was just because of that. he lost is power so now he's banned. >> you have amazon and google dropping parler. this is happening in realtime as he speak, because kicking it off -- i don't really wonder what the impact of that is. i more wonder how this fits into
a larger reckoning, a larger conversation that the country really needs to be having, about social media. in a way that we never have really seen before. you have the sitting president of the united states kicked off any kind of platform because they consider him dangerous. i have a colleague who's been reporting on extremism for some time, and she put it this way -- i don't think as a culture we've grappled with the way social media is a brainwashing machine. in this moment, is this a moment of opportunity to really deal with this question? >> it could be, but we're debating something else entirely, right? the main problem with social media isn't that donald trump is on the platform and that he tweets things that can be interpreted as threats. the main problem is that the algorithm sort us into facilitier bubbles, they activate the lizard parts of our brains and in particular in
facebook they push us into like minded groups with people that drive each other to extremes. the real problem is the algorithm can lead to decay of civil conversations in civil society. that is a huge conversation and an important one and one that has been taking place at some level for at least four years. but, you know, we have seen the results of effective action not being taken, which is the riot at the capitol, but we're not dealing with that much core issue. we're dealing with whether or not trump is being censored, which is important, but it's not at the center of this problem. >> doesn't get to the core. nick, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. coming up, covid cases and deaths in the united states have never been higher than they are right now. vaccines aren't rolling out nearly as fast as promised. the incoming biden administration says it has a plan, but it's not without risk. we'll be right back.
happened, just nine days into 2021. and there's a grim milestone for california. it is reporting 695 deaths, on saturday. that is an all-time, daily high. vaccinations, very clearly, cannot come soon enough or fast enough. more than 6 and a half million people in the u.s. have gotten their first-vaccine dose. that's the latest update from the cdc. the problem is that's a fraction of the doses that have been shipped out, and that are available right now. the incoming-biden administration is betting on a new strategy to speed things up. it wants to release nearly every vaccine dose, in -- right away, all together, instead of holding back some for when people need to get their second shot. cnn medical analyst and viral specialist, dr. jorge rodriguez joining me.
"new york times" is reporting in the coming days, one in every ten residents in los angeles county will have tested positive for covid. really, the numbers are numbing. you and i have talked about this, so many times. but it is -- it's unbelievable. why can't they get a handle on this right now, in l.a.? >> you know what? there are so many factors, that it's very difficult to point to just one. but you're right. there have been 900,000 people that have tested positive out of a county of 10 million. so you know, the tinderbox has been lit, is -- is the problem. and people think that los angeles are just these mountain mansions but it's a very dense city. it is a very diverse city. it's a city that has a lot of essential workers, working multiple jobs. it's a city that is very expensive to live in, therefore, there are many people living in small areas, multigenerational.
that's why it's difficult to get a handle on it. this is an octopus, with many different tentacles. and they're all contributing, in some way. so, we just need to go back to basics, seriously. besides the masks, besides the distancing, there's one thing that we need to realize. that everyone, including those we love and family, because that's where it's been spreading the most, can infect other people. it -- it's -- >> i am, also -- yeah -- and i am, also, wondering, i mean, with the really dire reports coming out of the hospitals. i mean, every eight minutes, someone is dying from coronavirus in l.a. can it get much worse? what does that even look like, right now? >> it, absolutely, can get much worse, and chances are, over the next couple of weeks, it is going to get much worse because what we are going to be seeing as far as deaths, two weeks from now, is something that is happening today. something that happened in new year's. right now, we are seeing the upswing from christmas.
and i would not be surprised, if california, especially los angeles, has a very high percentage of that variant that may be found in other countries right now. that is increasing the infectivity. so, it is going to get worse. what people need to realize, the more people get infected, the more mutations are going to happen and the less likely that we can control this. so, we need to start really buttoning down, again, right now. >> yeah. so, the biden administration now says it's going to try to speed up the vaccination effort by releasing all-available doses, rather than holding half back to guarantee that second dose that everyone needs. what do you think of that strategy, doctor? >> i want to start off by applauding the biden administration for at least discussing this. at least, having a plan. i think it's a dangerous strategy, to be quite honest. the problem is not, right now, that we don't have enough vaccines to give people. it is the distribution of giving
the vaccine to people. it is getting people to want to get the vaccine. i think, one of the major problems is that there is not a national, concerted, copyable way of doing things, from state to state. if this were a war and we said, hey, there was a draft. we wouldn't let oregon do it differently from maryland. it would be one, concerted way of doing it. states, some are richer than others. some have different health-care systems than others. so, therefore, the distribution varies. and also, there's enough distrust among some people with this vaccine, that if we now start doing things in a way that science hasn't proven, i think it will only add to this distrust. for example, if you give someone just one vaccine, yeah, they may get protection, you know, for a few months. but then, what? what if, then, they become susceptible again and we don't have any vaccines? we know what works. we should concentrate on
distributing the vaccine, as planned. that's what we need to be doing, in my opinion. >> it's a good point. doctor, thank you very much. >> thank you, kate. >> just ahead. good to see you. thank you. just ahead for us. the latest from washington on the possibility of invoking the 25th amendment to remove the president of the united states from office. new reporting on that, just ahead.